Smithsonian Podcast: There's More to That

June 26, 2025 | 24:09

Why You Should Love Durian, the World's Smelliest Fruit

The durian, a spiky fruit that grows across Southeast Asia, has a polarizing reputation for its pungent odor and strong taste. There are the durian haters — people who experience waves of revulsion at the mere thought of consuming one.

And then there are the superfans who sing its praises and travel the world to experience the rare and complex bliss it inspires on the palate. Those who relish this fruit say there’s a lot to love. It can be eaten raw (shortly after falling from the tree) or prepared as the hero of both sweet and savory dishes.

In this episode, host Ari Daniel travels with his children to a San Francisco restaurant to interview its chef and owner, Azalina Eusope, about her love of durian and the cuisine it inspires. And he speaks with Smithsonian contributing writer Tom Downey about his trip to Malaysia to experience the euphoria of fresh durian firsthand.

A transcript is below. To subscribe to “There’s More to That,” and to listen to past episodes about using fruit depicted in Renaissance paintings to rescue modern agriculture, an award-winning restaurant in New Orleans that showcases Senegalese cuisine, and a prehistoric pit that entombed animals for millennia, find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

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June 12, 2025 | 26:55

The Prehistoric Cave That Trapped and Entombed Animals for Millennia

The Natural Trap Cave is a pit in northern Wyoming into which countless animals since the Pleistocene have fallen and met their untimely demise. Paleontologists today find the cave a treasure trove — a stunning record of the species that have long roamed the area. Careful excavation work over the years that has involved sifting for bones, extracting ancient DNA, and looking for prehistoric pollen has revealed not just the plants and animals that once populated this part of the world, but also the ecosystems and climates that governed it. Host Ari Daniel speaks with vertebrate paleontologist Julie Meachen and Smithsonian contributing writer Michael Ray Taylor about what rappelling into Natural Trap Cave reveals about Earth’s past.

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May 29, 2025 | 37:30

The Stunning Search for the Remains of Fallen WWII Airmen

In the fall of 1944, Japanese fighters opened fire on a wave of U.S. planes near Palau, including a bomber carrying pilot Jay Ross Manown Jr., gunner Anthony Di Petta and navigator Wilbur Mitts. Their aircraft crashed into the sea, and the three men were “presumed dead.” Decades later, a group known as Project Recover worked to track down the wreckage and exhume the bones whose DNA could be tested. They ultimately identified the remains of all three crewmembers, allowing them to be laid to rest. Host Ari Daniel speaks with Stephen Mihm, who wrote about this effort for Smithsonian magazine, and with Rebecca Sheets, Manown’s niece, about what her uncle’s recovery meant for her and her family.

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May 15, 2025 | 21:34

The Joys of Discovering the Roman Underground, From the Colosseum to What’s Beneath the Trevi Foundation

This summer is a Jubilee Year in Rome, so the city will be more packed than ever. But below the traffic jams and bustle of pedestrians in the streets of Rome lie its subterranean sites, which include ancient aqueducts, pagan shrines and even apartment complexes built centuries ago. While tourists pound the pavement visiting the iconic landmarks aboveground, explorers can search beneath the streets of the Eternal City for a different perspective on ancient—and modern—Roman life. Host Ari Daniel speaks with Smithsonian contributing writer Tony Perrottet about Rome’s underworld—the city lurking beneath the city—and he offers numerous tips to listeners who want to explore these fascinating and tranquil sites for themselves.

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May 1, 2025 | 29:07

Looking Back on the L.A. Wildfires Through the Lens of Two Photographers

After multiple wildfires ripped through greater Los Angeles earlier this year, Californians were left to rebuild communities and grapple with the loss of life, nature and property. Thousands of homes were destroyed, and as many as 180,000 residents were under evacuation orders until the flames could be controlled. Unfortunately, this seems to be the new order in California; officials are already working to prepare for the next fire season.

Host Ari Daniel speaks with photographer Ivan Kashinsky, who witnessed and documented the devastation of the Palisades Fire up close, even as he tried to rescue his cats and valuables from his family home in Topanga Canyon. And we hear from writer and wildlife biologist Anton Sorokin, who chronicled the animals that escaped, fled and perished due to the fiery forces that are increasingly shaping our world.

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April 17, 2025 | 29:23

Dive Into the Deeper Story of the American Revolution on How New England and Virginia United Against the British

Two hundred and fifty years ago this month, silversmith Paul Revere took to his horse on a midnight ride to warn American rebels that British troops were approaching. The famous ride and an ensuing battle at Lexington and Concord touched off the American Revolution.

But there are other stories involving the role that enslaved Africans and Southern colonists played in launching and sustaining the rebellion that led to the founding of the United States of America. Host Ari Daniel speaks with Nikki Stewart of Old North Illuminated and Smithsonian writer Andrew Lawler about these lesser-known histories.

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April 3, 2025 | 38:37

A Field of Dreams Built in an Unlikely Place: A Japanese American Internment Camp

Baseball was a way of life in the camps that incarcerated Japanese Americans during World War II. The United States government stripped the Americans who lived in these camps of their liberties, but for those communities, having played the game for generations, baseball brought them closer to each other and, paradoxically, to their country. At Manzanar, one such site at the foot of the Sierra Nevada in California, dozens of baseball and softball teams played regularly.

Decades after the camps closed, and after Japanese Americans had returned to their homes on the West Coast, Manzanar was established as a historic site. Replicas of camp buildings were erected to memorialize what had happened there, but the baseball field was in complete disrepair. Artist and baseball enthusiast Dan Kwong led the herculean restoration effort. Host Ari Daniel talks with Kwong and Smithsonian writer Rachel Ng, who reported on the endeavor. 

March 20, 2025 | 24:42

The Swarm of People Intent on Saving Our Bees

Native bees in the United States are dying due to pesticides, disease and habitat loss. These insects play a critical role in nature and on farms, yet we know very little about native bees in part because they’re a challenge to study. That’s where a legion of bee enthusiasts and amateur experts, called “beeple,” come in. Armed with nets and jars, they fan out across the country to find, document and study native bees, both common and rare. Host Ari Daniel interviews Smithsonian writer Susan Freinkel and self-proclaimed bee enthusiast Michael Veit about the future of bees through the lens of the beeple who care deeply about them.

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March 6, 2025 | 39:37

A Mystery Surrounding the Grave of JFK Is Solved

A sculpture recognizing a spontaneous gesture of affection toward the slain president vanished into thin air more than half a century ago. Here’s the story of how it was just recently rediscovered.

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