The Search for the Guggenheim Treasure
Loot valued at $20 million lies off the coast of Staten Island, and Ken Hayes is on the hunt for the sunken silver bullion
- By Christopher Solomon
- Smithsonian.com, March 05, 2010, Subscribe
Among the old-timers casting for stripers along the Arthur Kill between Staten Island and New Jersey talk tends to return to a few well-thumbed topics. The most intriguing of these is the tale of the silver ingot that once snagged in the eel trident of the old Indian fisherman named Blood. From there, conversation invariably turns to the Lost Guggenheim Treasure.
On the still, moonlit night of September 26, 1903, a tug urged the barge Harold out of what’s today the South Street Seaport and south past the Statue of Liberty. The Harold’s load that night was nearly 7,700 silver-and-lead bars. They were destined for the glowing Asarco smelters of Perth Amboy, New Jersey. The silver, and the smelters, belonged to the Guggenheim family, which had made its fortune in mining and smelting.
The cargo never arrived, at least in one batch. Somewhere in the Arthur Kill tidal strait the Harold tipped, sending most of the silver bars to the bottom. The barge’s deckhands—“dumbest skunks I ever had to do with,” the salvage company’s owner later told the New York Times—didn’t notice until docking at dawn. A secret salvage effort recovered about 85 percent of the bars, but that still left up to 1,400 “pigs” unfound. Today they could be worth $20 million.
One morning last fall, Ken Hayes set out to find himself some sunken treasure—that is, if no one got to Hayes, or to the treasure, first. Hayes is president and founder of Aqua Survey, a Flemington, N.J., company that usually grabs sediment from the bottom of waterways for clients like the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. In recent years Aqua Survey also has gained a reputation for looking for less mundane things someone has lost underwater: Spanish doubloons off Key West. Fighter planes in the Bermuda Triangle. UFOs off Catalina Island.
The Guggenheim silver is Hayes’ personal obsession, however—which explains why Hayes was a little antsy to get started. It was eight o’clock in the morning at a boat launch at Sewaren on the Jersey side, less than two miles from the former Asarco smelters, and his three boats were stuck in traffic on Interstate 278. A documentary film crew burned the time taking B-roll of Hayes walking toward the water, looking pensive.
Finally the three boats arrived. The flotilla motored out toward Story’s Flats, a promising shallows where the channel bends like a quotation mark. It was a fine day to be on the water, even the Arthur Kill, which possesses a certain rusting Ozymandian grandeur: On the Jersey shore a beached ferry lay on its side, its bones bleaching in the October sun. Beside it the piers of the Hess tank farm were cushioned with a Detroit of used tires. A stained smokestack manufactured bright white clouds and sent them off over Fresh Kills Landfill.
As the boats positioned over their first target, Hayes, a jocular 57 year-old whose white beard, glasses and pebbled Clarkses give him the appearance of a college engineering professor, tried to temper expectations, including his own. Like any self-respecting treasure hunter Hayes had his own treasure map—created by sweeping the area with a souped-up metal detector whose software has been trained to ignore iron—but there was no guarantee that the map’s 255 dots were, well, treasure. “It could be aluminum cans, it could be specialty alloy rims from cars—you name it. Look, for years fishermen didn’t bring litter bags,” said Hayes, who with his employees has been surveying and investigating targets since 2006, spending several weeks annually on the quest.
A man motored up in a boat as white as a new tennis shoe.
“Is it silver or gold you’re looking for?” he called out.
“I’ll take either,” Hayes answered. The man said he was a retired marine patrolman from the 1980s, and he and Hayes swapped rumors. Before he left the retiree said, “You know, you better be careful, you might bring up Jimmy Hoffa.”
Once the boat was anchored in place, Hayes took what looked like an electrified pole-vault pole and began to prod through a window-sized hole in the deck. With this detector he prodded down through the water, down through a century’s worth of tidal muck and dioxins that the crew had nicknamed “black mayonnaise.” Meanwhile, inside the wheelhouse Mark Padover watched a laptop screen for a spike in the readings. This prodding continued for a long time. An observer noted that hunting for sunken treasure is not as swashbuckling in real life as when Johnny Depp does it at the Cineplex. Hayes handed off the pole to a crewmate and sat down on the deck. The black-mayo-prodding went on.
“Contact!”
“When you hit it, it jumps!” Padover called out from in front of the computer screen.
“Well, I guess we get Pete’s tool out and try to bring it up,” Hayes says. To haul 75-pound bars out from under 96 years' worth of muck, machinist Pete Davis had designed an 11-foot harpoon with a nasty-looking screw at one end and a big drill at the other. (Davis’ harpoon two years earlier, powered by a .38 Special, had proven dramatic if ineffectual.)
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Comments (200)
i am a 42yrs old, healthy and strong! i live in n.y.c all my life looking for aventures but theres something speacial about treasure hunting in the rivers or ocean . so what a trying to say if need a worker , i am here to work hard.
Posted by carmelo montes on August 6,2011 | 12:01 PM
I've studied the silver bars of Story Flats since the mid-1990's. One of the problems that arises, did the Corp of Engineers have the Arthur Kill dredges during the past one hundred years. The answer is yes. It has been dredged at least twice during that time. There is a possibility that a company like Great Lakes Dredge, could have dredged up some or all of the silver/lead ingots during of those dredge operations.
Twice i planned on giving it a try to attempt salvage of the silver/lead ingots, but working got in the way. Commercial diver for more than 30 years. Had i tried, i would have utilized a diver with an underwater metal detector. When i would find something of interest, i would have utilized a jet pump to try to blast the bottom out to find object. A slow process, but i think it may have worked. I have since lost interest in this project. Hopefully, my thoughts will spur some younger diver to try their luck.
Posted by Jim Stormes on February 21,2011 | 05:00 PM
IN THE MID 1980'S I SEARCHED FOR THE CARGO WITH THE RENOWNED DOCTOR HAROLD EDGERTON PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THE MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY WITH PERIOD MAPS FROM THE ARMY CORP OF ENGINEERS AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND HIS CUSTOM SUB BOTTOM SONAR WE SURVEYED THE SITE AND LOCATED THREE CONCLUSIVE GROUPED TARGETS OF INTEREST THERE WERE 3 OTHER SALVAGE GROUPS ALSO SEARCHING TILL THE COAST GUARD INTERVENED FOR SAFETY, AND ORDER .AT 26 FEDERAL PLAZA FEDERAL JUDGE SOFARE MADE SEVERAL RULINGS, THE HENNER GROUP WAS NOT ALLOWED TO CONTINUE THEIR SEARCH, BOB HOOPER WAS ALLOWED TO WORK HIS SITE AND THE ACDC GROUP COULD WORK NORTH OF HOOPERS SITE. THE JUDGE RULED NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DO ANY DREDGING OF ANY FORM INCLUDING PROBING ONLY ELECTRONIC DATA RECORDINGS AND DIVING ARE ALLOWED. THAT THE ROYAL COULD NOT PUT A CLAIM TO THE CARGO TILL A BAR WAS FOUND A "TITLE CLAIM". BECAUSE OF THE TOXIC NATURE THE SEDIMENT THE VARYING DEPTH OF MUD AND SILT 6-20FT, WITH THE BARS RESTING BELOW THIS TOXIC MUD ON THE SANDY SUB BOTTOM AND SOME PUSHED INTO THE SAND BY THE ACTION OF THE ORANGE PEEL BUCKET DREDGE FROM THE ORIGINAL SALVAGE IN 1903 MAKES THIS TREASURE A FORMIDABLE ONE. I STILL HAVE A ACTIVE INTEREST IN THIS CARGO ASIDE FROM ALL OF THESE OBSTACLES AND WOULD WELCOME ANY NEW INPUT. I CAN BE REACHED AT josephklimcak@optonline.net
Posted by Joseph Klimcak on April 13,2010 | 12:49 PM
DEAR READERS LET ME SET YOU STRAIGHT ON THE SILVER BARS OF STORY FLATS. FIRST... THE ROYAL INSURANCE COMPANY HAS PETITIONED THE FEDERAL COURTS IN THE LATE 1980'S THAT THEY HAVE NOT ABANDONED THEIR FULL CLAIM TO THE LOST CARGO OF 100 POUND SILVER BARS AFTER UNDERWRITING AND PAYING THE LOSS TO THE GUGGENHEIM'S. THE LAWYERS OF ROYAL STATED THEIR POSITION IN THE FEDERAL COURT CASE HENNER vs .UNITED STATES COAST GUARD JUDGE SOFARE PRESIDING. SECOND...THE BARS WEIGH 100 POUNDS EACH THEY ARE A ALLOY OF 75% SILVER AND 25% LEAD WITH TRACE ELEMENTS, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WERE CAST POURED INTO SAND CASTS FROM A WOODEN MASTER MOLD. THESE PIGS WERE QUICKLY PRODUCED, THE SPECULATION IS THAT THE GUGGENHEIM MINING OPERATION IN MEXICO WAS WORRIED THAT José Doroteo Arango Arámbula (5 June 1878 – 20 July 1923), better known by his pseudonym Francisco Villa or its hypocorism "Pancho Villa" WAS GOING TO OVERTHROW THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT AND NATIONALIZE THE GUGGENHEIM MINES IN MEXICO AND BECAUSE THE REFINERY AT THE MINES WAS A SMALL OPERATION ONLY A FEW 100 POUNDS OF PURE SILVER A DAY COULD BE REFINED THEY DECIDED TO SHIP THE ALLOY 75/25 TO THE AMERICAN SMELTING AND REFINERY CORPORATION (ASARCO)IN SEWAREN NEW JERSEY. THERE WERE 7,678 BARS WEIGHING 100 POUNDS EACH THAT IS 767,800 POUNDS. THEY ARRIVED BY STEAMSHIP OFF LOADED ONTO THE BARGE THE HAROLD ON ITS WAY TO ASARCO OFF SEWAREN ON THE MUD FLAT KNOW AS STORY'S FLAT THE HAROLD TOPPLED OVER, DUMPED ITS CARGO AND RIGHTED ITSELF. RELIEVED OF THAT BURDEN WITH 200 BARS REMAINING TRAPPED ALONGSIDE HER GUNWALE SHE ARRIVED AT THE DOCKS OF ASARCO TO THE SURPRISE OF EVERYONE NEARLY EMPTY.
Posted by Joseph Klimcak on April 13,2010 | 12:47 PM
Silver, gold and other precious metals are weighed in troy ounces. There are 12 troy ounces to a troy pound. The other weight is by avoirdupois, commonly used in groceries, of which there are 16 ounces to the avp pound. However it would be better to calculate the weight in grams, then we would know exactly the worth of each bar.
Posted by Sam on March 27,2010 | 10:52 PM
i think if any does ever find the it belongs to there family
Posted by bill on March 19,2010 | 12:30 PM
Better go for gold than silver...! I have a project with 100 kgs of ingots to recover in less than 100 meters of water in the Atlantic... Still looking for financial partners.
More stories to read aat http://www.oceantreasures.org
Posted by Pascal on March 16,2010 | 12:32 AM
I can't believe some of the stupid comments on here. If the guggenheims wanted the loot, they have all the money and resources available to go find it, which means:
1. they don't think its there (they know something hayes doesn't)
2. They already did look for it and couldn't find it
3. They looked for it, found it, and didn't say anything
OR
4. We assume that since its been there for over 100 years, and the guggenheim family has been filthy rich for just as long, that whoever finds it, deserves to keep it (minus whatever uncle sam takes to line his own thieving pockets with).
To all the people who think that NY should get the money, or the guggenheims, or whoever else besides aqua-survey, you are idiots. Its been there for a full century. You had your chance to find it. You didn't take it. Someone else did. And that's why they will be raking in the cold hard cash later and not you.
The whole world wants something for nothing......
Posted by Daniel Kelly on March 15,2010 | 02:38 AM
To bad it doesn't sit at the bottom of the Kill Van Kul,The Raritan Bay Nor has it ever.
Local S.I'er
Posted by Mike on March 15,2010 | 01:37 AM
I think the guy who called the crew idiots took it.
Posted by Rick L on March 15,2010 | 01:28 AM
I want to know how in the heck a barge tilts so much it loses ALL of its cargo without sinking and no deckhands even notice. This whole thing sounds like theft or fraud to me. The Guggenheims probably just claimed to recover 85% of it (secretly)after they pocketed the insurance money.
When in fact they doubled their money thru insurance fraud.
Posted by Todd on March 15,2010 | 01:23 AM
Geraldo Rivera will find it.
Posted by Mike on March 15,2010 | 01:22 AM
This is for all those who are trying to run calculations regarding the value of the pigs reported to weigh 75 pounds, and who don't understand the smelting business.
1. There were NOT Silver bars, and seperate Lead bars.
2. The Silver and the Lead were mixed together in the bars, thus being an "ALLOY" of the two metals.
3. The bars were/are "raw" Silver/Lead from an inefficient first stage smelting operation in Mexico.
4. They have to be "refined" to seperate the Silver and Lead, with each finished product sold at its value.
5. That's where the New Jersey smelting operation, where the bars were beint shipped, comes into the picture.
6. There was no mention in the article about the percentage of each of the metals in the pigs, so...
7. Without that info it's impossible to calculate the value of the bars, or each of its components, Silver and Lead.
8. In the raw form, no one can sell either the Silver or Lead, AND if recovered, the bars will have to be REFINED at a smelter to get any real value from the Silver.
Posted by johnny on March 15,2010 | 01:09 AM
Poor dudue is wasting his time....I already found the bars back in 1982..... Silver was only worth $7 an ounce....so I dropped it back in the water....only downriver about a mile an a half or so..... I can show you where for a fee.....
Posted by drew on March 15,2010 | 01:08 AM
Good story, I enjoyed reading it..... However, I agree with the others saying the crew recovering 85% of the loot kept the rest. Sounds like ol' folk lore to me.
Posted by Cullen on March 15,2010 | 01:06 AM
I can totally relate to this story. Why just the other day while treasure hunting, I found a bottle cap!!! thar be the treasure matey!!!
Posted by drew on March 15,2010 | 01:03 AM
Well I believe that if silver was insured back then and the Gugenheimers where paid out then after it is found it is not theirs because it was piad for by the insurance company. As far as the insurance company, ut probably went out of business by now. So a court battle would ensue and be split 50/50 then the taxes on both of the netting the government 70% verses 35%.
Now if I found it I would be smart and bring it up slowly and load it under water under the boat so no one knew I was bringing it up then take a trip to another country and just have fun.
Posted by Kevin on March 15,2010 | 12:53 AM
My grandfather used to tell me that there was a story going around in Hoboken around the time the treasure dissapeared. Frank Sinatra was just starting out and it was a special time. According to the story which my grandfather overheard, the Headless Horseman of Sleepy Hollow was spotted on the night the silver went missing. It was a full moon and you could hear the wolves cry on the banks of the Hudson. This still gives me the shivers (this and the fact that Michael Douglas is re-making Wall Street). My grandfather later dismissed these stories and I later found out that the silver was taken away by Moby Dick (after visiting 42nd street during the good old days). Luckily, Moby Dick shared the bounty with NEMO and Shamu (with disastrous results as we now all know). I am not sure if this makes sense but it should all be recorded in the Legend of Banner Vance. I just do not understand why these salvage teams don't to their homework before starting on this mission!
Posted by Lucas Jones on March 15,2010 | 12:36 AM
The name "pig" comes from the fact that a silver bar weighs 13kg, 0.5kg more than a gold bar. The workers who made the first standardized silver bars purposely made them slightly heavier than their more valuable counterpart. These workers were aprentices working their way up to mold the gold and were jealous of the more experienced journeymen handling the precious metal. So they ignored the standard weight, making the silver bar slightly heavier, some historians say signifying greed, ignorance, or jealousy. The discrepancy went undetected for years, creating an udervalued market for silver. This disparity in the market slowly drained family fortunes made in silver investments. Until one day, some low level hired hands discovered the difference in weight. They tried to tell their employer that the silver was actually heavier, thereby making the bars more valuable than originally thought. Further, the hired hands also explained how they were confident that silver prices were going to spike with in the next year and their employer's wealth would increase exponentially if he sold the bars in the following year. The employer dismissed them as dolts and told them to leave the financial speculation up to him. Angry at the employer's insults the hired hands staged an accident, losing some of the silver bars which were never recovered. Months after the incident the each of the hired hands moved out of the country and each sent a postcard to their employer, all with the same note: "You should have sold when we did." True story.
Posted by Ted on March 15,2010 | 12:35 AM
If Ny wants a piece of this, then get off your butts and stop stealing everyone elses investment just so you can make somebody else unemployed. Why don't you go swim out there and dig in the black mayonaise with your scruffy hands lick it until you find the silver bars that the hunters deserve so much.
Posted by Mary Poppins on March 15,2010 | 12:35 AM
Once something goes into the ocean it is finders keeps. The only way NYS will get any of it is if they live there and pay income tax on the money they get for selling it. According to salvage laws even if you find a ship in the ocean with no crew on board, you can keep it. The Guggenheim's have no rights to it now, if they did not get money from the insurance company for it then they have to take the loss, or go find it themselves.
Posted by Chris Arceneaux on March 15,2010 | 12:32 AM
Interesting. Why hasn't the government doing anything to salvage whats remains of the treasure?
Posted by JR on March 15,2010 | 12:30 AM
I love it. A story about the Arthur Kill, Staten Island, and not one mention of Bayonne, just the "Jersey shore". The silver should go to Bayonne. Oh, by the way, the Statue of Liberty also belongs to New Jersey.
Posted by Mike N on March 15,2010 | 12:30 AM
if you got the silver and lead.... use the money to save the country from global warming and poverty as well as those that experience/victims of nature strike and other calamities.... thank you for using the money wisely.... God will Love U...
Posted by joven de joya nonod on March 15,2010 | 12:27 AM
I believe it has already been taken buy some fisherman. You know how many people have been through these waterways...lol After all of these years they are the "ONLY" people that know about this I doubt it. They are gone their is probably something else happening down there.
Posted by Pirate on March 15,2010 | 12:21 AM
Assuming they did recover 85%, I think the barge crew stole the 15% and sunk the 85% to cover it up with a plausible story.
They had to sink (and therefore allow to be recovered) the vast majority of the silver in order to make the story plausible. If it had been the other way around, stealing most, and sinking/recovering the lesser part, the owners would have gotten suspicious. But as it was, the owners were placated that they got most of the silver back. And the thieves still came out ahead.
Posted by Neal Penzo on March 15,2010 | 12:19 AM
there was no silver the wholewas a hoax insurance fruad or there was far less silver than they stated the lead bars were probably painted it was a fraud or it was all found right away by the guys that recovered the 85%. if it is down there it has been buried deep deep deep in the muck not to mention it probably has been dredged over and buried deeper. good luck if he has to dive for it he will probably be diagnosed with a nasty disease.
Posted by harley dog on March 15,2010 | 12:14 AM
lets find the ONe piece
Posted by roronoa zoro on March 15,2010 | 12:09 AM
Oh, I'm sure Uncle Sam and NYS will get their share in taxes, to be sure!
Posted by Robert Kriegar on March 15,2010 | 12:08 AM
Mr. Hayes is about to get a very rude awakening...one should not tread on another's permit area...that's a BIG NO NO in any business, and especially the treasure biz! If you read the article carefully you'll note the part where the other boat sat at anchor while the 2 crews filmed each other...well...the other boat crew actually has the permit from the State of NY D.E.C...NOT MR. HAYES!!! The bars are still there, and Mr. Hayes will never see them! That I promise you! Guys like this give professional treasure salvors a bad name! Lord only knows how many investors he's taking for a ride!!!
Posted by D Pirate on March 15,2010 | 12:07 AM
Either one of two things is possible, as to ownership. I know that in today's world, if the insurance company pays on a claim, then the property, if recovered, belongs to them. And you can bet that Allstate has some big HANDS to hold it all in, too.
Posted by Jim on March 15,2010 | 12:04 AM
F.Y.I. --- When weighing precious metals a pound is equal to 10-oz. not 16-oz.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
Posted by PLE on March 15,2010 | 12:00 AM
come on yall, there is nothing in that water. they planed that out very well. deckhands got those bars. they said the Guggenheim don't want to take care of us we'll take care of ourself.
Posted by silence on March 15,2010 | 11:58 PM
who is to say there was 85%recovered what if it's only 35%recovered.what if it was all recovered and some one made up this tale. where we there?.no-but if he finds it ,great for him. but it sounds like he better be careful!
Posted by ben vuotto on March 15,2010 | 11:56 PM
You morons that keep saying you found silver bars and cashed them in are stupid. Did you not even read? What did you do put a 700 pound block of silver and lead in your pocket?
Posted by Bob on March 15,2010 | 11:56 PM
There's lots of metal in the ground all over America. Today most people are to lazy and too uneducated to go and get it. THose who do the work should have it. The lazy ones should go jump in the lake.
Posted by Johan Peterson on March 15,2010 | 11:49 PM
1. You New Yorkers are greedy, find your own treasures.
2. Guggenheims got paid off for their loss through the insurance on the silver and lead.
3. I wouldn't go near the water with all the PCB, Dioxin, and other chemicals. Hell with diving that site.
Posted by Chipr on March 15,2010 | 11:44 PM
Does anyone realize the rate that silver decays in a soldium chloride solution (salt water) add in other unknown toxic chemicals and stray electric current from unproperly grounded boats and you get rapid silver depletion as silver is highly conductive moreso than bronze which requires zinc anodes to protect it. i would bet that there is not much left of the silver worth salvaging.
Too bad but good luck to Mr Hayes in any case.
Furthermore if Guggenheim had that load insured and I am certain that he did, then the insurance company and their lawyers will want their share first and after windfall taxes there is less than nothing to make it worthwhile.
Bill
Posted by Bill Foxx on March 15,2010 | 11:41 PM
I agree that it's gone, great way to cover up their theft would have been to toss a good chunk over and report it as such, salvage crews find part of it and what the deckhands have gets written off.
even if it's down there, they wont find all of it. it's not all in the same spot otherwise the original salvage team would have pulled it up in the first place.
Posted by chris on March 15,2010 | 11:23 PM
Very simple....if you find anything valuable, keep your mouth shut and don't tell anyone....especially anyone with the state of New York or NYC. Find another place to cash it in...even if you have to cash it in amongst other states. What NYS and NYC don't know can't ever be taxed on or collected.
Posted by Chuck on March 15,2010 | 11:23 PM
once you know where the lost treasure is you dont stop your search. If it's there you keep researching it until you have it in your hands. DONT STOP! OR SOMEONE ELSE WILL TAKE IT FROM YOU!!!
Posted by mike b. on March 15,2010 | 11:17 PM
I hope the person that found it gets a good sized share for their efforts. I'm sure the goverment will jump all over this.
Posted by terri e on March 15,2010 | 11:16 PM
So they will look for gold... but not a Nuclear Bomb thats sitting off the coast of Georgia?? hmmm... i think our priorities are alittle off...
Posted by Jeff on March 15,2010 | 11:13 PM
I used to run in Bay Ridge every morning. I never thought there would be a sunken treasure there.
Posted by Matt on March 15,2010 | 11:13 PM
I love how tha story is being told...that all the resident in New York need more ppl and car..make sure you bring a toyota in there....lol
Posted by danny on March 15,2010 | 11:07 PM
Use the money to save the U.S.
Posted by Kooky on March 15,2010 | 11:06 PM
ARRGGGHH ! IF IT'S SILVER YE SEEK,I GOT SOME IN MY TEETH.
Posted by BOB on March 15,2010 | 10:54 PM
One - Lead and Silver are not magnetic.
Two - I'm with the guy who thinks the original deck hands have it, and
Three - any fool who finds it and reports it, deserves to have 50% taken as tax.
Posted by Mike on March 15,2010 | 10:52 PM
Trust me, it's gone. No really.
Posted by Jon Lonngren on March 15,2010 | 10:52 PM
Ahhh" The likely-hood of the find for the finder is far greater than the catch itself. To think that all this mumbo jumbo about which state has a right if any is an insult to ones intelligence! Kapooy^$#!?*&^ Those states spend more time on their own taxes in a day than what dat loot is worth salvaging, those states dont care about what comes up or what it is worth. They only care about taxing it!!! Get a clue" This fine gental spirate challenges his own luck and his time and his own equipment to do a job no one else has the gutts to acheive. Give the credit they deserve, treasure hunting is and always will be just a hunt! Until the hunt is over, the luck in finding it will always remain the challenge of the hunt to the hunter. I wish you all good luck! and keep guessing where its at... AHHHH!
Posted by Big Mike on March 15,2010 | 10:47 PM
Maybe the guys on the original boat transferred it to another boat!
Posted by Barry on March 15,2010 | 10:47 PM
What a scam, Im sure the new world order knows excatly were it is!!!
Posted by travis on March 15,2010 | 10:46 PM
Good luck, Ken. If you find it, do as you will with it. I believe it's finders, keepers.
Posted by Ksracing on March 15,2010 | 10:43 PM
Isn't that just like a bunch of New Yorkers. Want a share of something they did't help get, don't have a claim on nor ever did. Tell me. Why is it that NYS Gov. or the people of New York should get a share if the treasure is found? Because you're all lazy and want something for nothing maybe?
Posted by Brice on March 15,2010 | 10:42 PM
i think that silver is measured in troy ounces. that is 12 ounces to a pounds.
Posted by g. r. cross on March 15,2010 | 10:41 PM
I see many people of the many nations don't know of the great man who dissapeared 150 years ago. There were many myths about how this noble leader disappeared, it was as if he had vanished out of thin air. One day few weeks ago he re-appeared as if he had left yesterday on the shore of Lake Superior. Bodies of water hold there secrets until they decide to release them. For you might be the next secret they hold. So beware of where you are you might not be the one you are in 150 years.
Posted by funidea2010 on March 15,2010 | 10:34 PM
Its about time a writer who can write A well told story very enjoyable to read, You should write novels not stories that a paper like this dose not appreciate natural talent.Go make the real money write a novel turn it into a movie and take home the $28,000,000 yourself
Posted by tommie on March 15,2010 | 10:31 PM
Silver? what silver?. Perhaps they have already located it and chose to keep their mouth shut.
Posted by John Wilson on March 15,2010 | 10:29 PM
This black sluge should be the black flag. Who's to clean up the toxic waist this person wrangles to the food chain again. Lets use the $ to clean the waters so we don't keep poisoning our world.
Posted by Q on March 15,2010 | 10:29 PM
I hope they do find the treasure. and as far as NYS. it should be finders keepers and the state should just take the loss the man is putting his company and personal money into this venture HE SHOULD GET IT ALL.
Posted by bill on March 15,2010 | 10:28 PM
The loot is not there. It did not all hit the bottom. It was a theft made to look like a bumbling accident. Didn't you see the movie, or dateline or Heraldo or Barbara Walters report, or... Oh, Sh..t! The FBI is at the door! If you are reading this, I didn't make it! The loot is at ..........
Posted by Alvin Sample on March 15,2010 | 10:28 PM
I see all of these people that want to know if the goverment will get half. The answer is NO! NYC is not entittled to it either. This was never claimed as a public treasure of NYC, So there for its not different than finding a 100 dollar bill on a public street.
Also, I agree with the gentleman that said that they will be lucky to break even, much less make a profit on this find. Treasue often takes many years to earn back its inititial value upon discovery. IE TUT
Posted by kelly on March 15,2010 | 10:23 PM
Bryant Nellermoe.....
Quite a dealer you are. Well, while we have nothing better to do with our time (the story sounds like "Readers Digest" columns)
16 ounce/pound by 75 pounds/bar equals 1200, by $17 equals $20,400 a bar. If they recovered 85% of 7700 bars during the initial salvage, then about 1155 bars left will total $23,562,000.
P.S let no one take these issues serious pls, just whiling away time.
Posted by Tony on March 15,2010 | 10:22 PM
What is wrong with you people leave the hunt and the find to those who have the skill as for the Guggenheim Family and anyone else sorry it no longer belongs to them if they wanted it back they should have funded the hunt for it themselves good luck to all of you searching and for everyone wanting a piece of the loot get a life of you own
Posted by rick mcelroy on March 15,2010 | 10:20 PM
Thank you, Brad Johnson, for pointing out what should've been obvious to everyone. Perhaps there are parts of the story we don't know, but it seems pretty plausible that the deckhands stole the other bars.
Posted by Kathy on March 15,2010 | 10:20 PM
Even if they do find anything, it's not theirs to keep.
It belongs to someone.
Namely the Guggenheims.
Perhaps if he didn't admit to knowing who it originally belonged to, he may be able to re-coup a finders fee.
Whatta waste of manpower and finacing.
To much, to little, to late to bad Hayes....
Posted by Bill on March 15,2010 | 10:18 PM
"If you would sail the seas at world's end you will need a captain that knows those waters." --Tia Dal ma--
Posted by BrianB on March 15,2010 | 10:18 PM
Simple math, my friend.... plus a little knowledge of history might help here. In 1903 (and even today) I promise you that there were NO 1oz "bars" heading to the smelter. Taking the 20 million dollars estimate and the 1200 "pigs" supposedly left in the water, this would mean that each silver "pig" would have approximately $16,667 worth of silver in it, or 980+ ounces. Who knows the actual weight or "junk" content of the "pigs" though. If a barge was needed to carry 7700 (or 471+ ton), I assume that there is a lot of junk in the pigs too.... but hey, I could be wrong,
Posted by SJVM on March 15,2010 | 10:13 PM
What an interesting story to tell your grandchildren someday!.... "I wasnt blogging little Jimmy, i was treasure hunting" Good Luck!
Posted by Montrelle on March 15,2010 | 10:11 PM
All these new found treasures that have been lost for hundreds of years could most definantly help reestablish our enconomy!
Posted by Judith on March 15,2010 | 10:10 PM
The "treasure" more than likely has been found, no one will tell the state since they take 30% of what is found if someone reports it. Someone that looks for treasures is looking to take over someone elses money, do you think they really want someone to take a cut?
Posted by The Truth on March 15,2010 | 10:10 PM
if these individuals find the silver then by all means they are entitled to the money. the government is not helping them so they do not get a bloody dime. if the irs wants it to fix the economy then they should go and get it. who ever finds it first it belongs to them PERIOD. TAX FREE!
Posted by stanley on March 15,2010 | 10:10 PM
Great story well told but the math needs to be checked. The headline uner the picture says most of the 7700 pigs were still on the bottom, while the story says 85 percent were recovered. Maybe the Guggenheims just claimed that they were lost to collect on the insurance or to claim a tax loss or maybe the missing ingots were stolen by those "not so stupid" crew members.
Posted by tony d on March 15,2010 | 10:09 PM
Poor Chap...unless he's looking in the salvage company owner's bank account your not going to find them, and a "secret salvage effort" that recovered about 85 percent of the bars tells me the 'dumb as skunk deckhands' at least knew how to keep their mouths shut, those 'pigs' went wee wee wee all the way to the salvage company owner's home!
Posted by kelly on March 15,2010 | 10:09 PM
Love the hunt for history. Good luck and hope you find what your looking for or who knows something more historical.
Once again good hunting. and enjoy it.
Posted by yuktonis on March 15,2010 | 10:07 PM
amazing!
Posted by Judith Ashcraft on March 15,2010 | 10:06 PM
Forget the silver, they should jar up that black mayonaise...mmmmmmmm!
Posted by Nick on March 15,2010 | 10:03 PM
FINDERS" KEPERS!!!
Posted by John Krisher on March 15,2010 | 10:01 PM
Our U.S.A.
If you always do what you have always have done, you will always get, what you have always have gotten.
Posted by Michael on March 15,2010 | 09:49 PM
where is it NOW!?
Posted by erick J. Balasta on March 15,2010 | 09:41 PM
I GOT TO N.Y. TO FIND THE SILVER I WAS THERE IN 1975 AND I FIND 10 BAR OF SILVER I NEED TO GO BACK IN FIND MORE!!!!!!!!!!!! I SOLD IT FOR 200K IN 1975 SO I WILL BE THERE ON THURSDAY TO GET WET AGAIN BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by SANTIAGO on March 15,2010 | 09:38 PM
I'm pretty sure there is a statue of limitations on ownership that covers this type of thing... salvage laws should apply but fair is not fair anymore. The Guggenheim family will lawyer up if it is found. NYC has no claim and those who want the find to be donated to charity are idjits... why would this guy spend all his time and money to find a treasure and just give it away? Our government is doing a fine job of giving away our tax money to everyone under the sun. I have to agree with the poster that pointed out this is a dredged area... very unlikely anything remains.
Posted by Tim Palmer on March 15,2010 | 09:36 PM
When did it happened?
Posted by Warren on March 15,2010 | 09:34 PM
my great grandfather found that long time ago.dont waist your time
Posted by michael spring on March 15,2010 | 09:33 PM
I'd say if hayes and his crew find anything, they are going to be in a fight for it. Look up the Indian Head Rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Head_Rock) found in the Ohio River in 2007. Kentucky owns the Ohio River but didn't want to fund the diver to find it. After it was found Kentucky and Ohio are into it over this ROCK. If two states fight over a ROCK, what do you think the state of New York is going to do!
Posted by Robert Anderson on March 15,2010 | 09:26 PM
I agree, the family (if they are alive) should have the right to say what happens to the money, however I've got to disagree with andy. the people of NYC shouldn't get the money, why would millions of people get it? just asking.
Posted by Megan on March 15,2010 | 09:26 PM
Look at it like this. you lose a $20 from your wallet you dont know its missing till you go to lunch. someone finds it and spends it. do you ever see any of that money? no the lucky guy who found it uses it in his own way. Now you lose $20 million worth of silver in a river. tough luck.
Posted by highlo3517 on March 15,2010 | 09:25 PM
the titanic was found in the middle of the atlantic just think about it
Posted by william on March 15,2010 | 09:17 PM
if you found it i think you ought to keep it like they say finders keepers im with you
good luck fellows
Posted by wayne on March 15,2010 | 09:14 PM
There's no silver left on the bottom, the crew of the barge got the silver that wasn't recovered, took it off in a boat, then dumped the rest...
Posted by haha on March 15,2010 | 09:08 PM
Dude, with the panic attacks that the newyorkers have since 911, if anyone sees a diver in the Hudson, the whole ARMY will be called to check whats going on. They won't let anyone be fooling around looking for underwater treasures, NOT in NY.
Posted by Are You Crazy on March 15,2010 | 09:05 PM
ok!!!!!!!!!!!! go for it
Posted by jairinniel on March 15,2010 | 09:04 PM
The bars are lead + silver, not just silver, so its not 75 full pounds of silver per bar.
Posted by Owen on March 15,2010 | 09:04 PM
well the silver sunk with lead bars which are magnetic would it not make sence to drag a giant elctromagnet over the bottom untill u suck up a lead bar then dredge that area to extract the silver bars that mixed in with it
Posted by daniel adamczyk on March 15,2010 | 09:04 PM
I imagine the bars are long gone, and the only people who know where they might be would be the secret recovery team that retrieved the 85 percent. The other 15 percent were probably recovered on a secret, secret mission. These guys who recovered the 85 percent had to get their 15 percent for their share.
Posted by Ted on March 15,2010 | 08:59 PM
First of all goodluck in the hunt guys,second the state of new york has no rights being that it was private property.If it were originally part of a government payroll making its way to a smelter then mint;dibbs.If it was insured the claim would still hold but to the salvagers.A tax may be owed to NYS or uncle sam but certanly not the payload.Statu of limitations may have a part in reclaimmation for the underwritters of the original policy.
Posted by Lee.S on March 15,2010 | 08:57 PM
Every time Guggie sneezed he lost $20 million dollars.
Posted by Scott Smith on March 15,2010 | 08:56 PM
I think it was lost when a rogue wave caused by global warming tipped the barge.
Posted by Bill on March 15,2010 | 08:55 PM
and it will cost how much to find it oooopppps nothing left the goverment took it for taxs
Posted by d m on March 15,2010 | 08:50 PM
Thanks for your support. Our goals are simple: solve the mystery and keep two silver bars; one for Aqua Survey, Inc. and one to return to a museum in Zacatecas, Mexico...the source of the silver bar and the Guggenheim's great wealth.
Posted by Ken Hayes on March 15,2010 | 08:48 PM
I think its a great story and who ever finds it should use it to do good things to clean up our waterways.
Posted by caroline perkins on March 15,2010 | 08:45 PM
Most of that silver was found in the middle to late 80's by an owner of a trucking company from NJ. Do a little research and you will find a court case involving the trucking company and the insurance company...US District Court.
Posted by john on March 15,2010 | 08:42 PM
When I was around 7 or 8 years old or so my grandfather who work at alot of the clubs and bars playing honky tonk piano, would tell us stories about things that happened in his travels at gigs and stuff. He told us a story about how some guys would brag about how the rip off the ships and docks back in the day. I don't know how true the stories were, but this could be something people stole. They made up the story about the boat tipping and dump some over board and took the rest. Yes, even then people were greedy. Well who knows. It was just a story we were told.
Posted by Eric Young on March 15,2010 | 08:42 PM
so another gold rush like california huh
Posted by roman on March 15,2010 | 08:38 PM
20 MILLION>>????
Even if someone found it, who will buy it from you, the museum?
That means the government is 20 million MORE in debt.
LOL
Posted by lol on March 15,2010 | 08:38 PM
when people look at precious metals they are measured in troy which is 12 ounces to a pound or 31.3 grams to an ounce now do the math .. and a pig at harvest is about 75 pounds that is why the silver was referred as a pig. F.Y.I
Posted by sean on March 15,2010 | 08:36 PM
This is worth about an hour of the Iraq war, if anyone is wondering.
Posted by Theodore on March 15,2010 | 08:34 PM
Ask Nicholas Cage to find it!!!
Posted by Chris on March 15,2010 | 08:34 PM
puh-lease 20 million wouldnt make our economy n e better, it'd take billions. Now 20 million to one man (a man thats bustin his arse and obsessing over it, plus a crew. Now theres an impact. its called work and they doin it
Posted by mememememe on March 15,2010 | 08:33 PM
This is why the Guggenheims, and the rest of their ilk, should have been exterminated during WWII. It's not to late, we can start the extermination today.
Posted by jonjon on March 15,2010 | 08:32 PM
The guy is wasting his time, I found the silver 14 years ago and had it melted down to make a solid silver life size statue of Madonna. I have it hear in my office on display
Posted by Terry on March 15,2010 | 08:31 PM
The silver was enroute to Perth Amboy, NEW JERSEY. If it sank on the NJ side of the border, then be sure that the NJ politicians its theirs and they will want their share and they can spend it just as fast as any NY politician.
Posted by Bob on March 15,2010 | 08:30 PM
A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel shoved down his pants. Bartender asks "why?"
Pirate replies "Arg, it's driving me nuts"
Posted by Pirates Tresure on March 15,2010 | 08:30 PM
Y is no one looking for this treasure to?
Posted by brokan on March 15,2010 | 08:30 PM
All I got to say is I wanted to be a hunter for treasure,So good luck finding what your looking for. The ole saying is LOSERS WEEP FINDERS KEEP.
Posted by Ray on March 15,2010 | 08:22 PM
good luck on your hunt. be careful tho, the government most likely values that bullion more than your life. i think it should stay buried if its there. the people need it, but well never see it.
Posted by jordan on March 15,2010 | 08:17 PM
I think that NYS hasn't looked for it because they already know it's not even there anymore. I believe the ship-hands know what happened to the other 15%. If they didn't take it, however unlikely that may be, you have to consider how many times that area has been dredged. I still wouldn't consider this to be a waste of time though. Who wouldn't want a piece of $20 million dollars?
Posted by Tim on March 15,2010 | 08:15 PM
Hey(Bryant) the one that said it was worth 28 Million recheck your Math Gold, Silver and other metels go by Troy OZs so there only 12 OZs to a Pound and yes if they said 75 lbs then that what they are because they were Rough Poured and if they poured just 1 oz Pcs they the crew and or any 1 could walk away with them but you cant just Pick up a 75lb Bar and walk away without being Noticed and to the others that was worried about the Org Family they dont Own it any more the Insurance Companys paid them off 96 years ago But there is a Tax on all salvage that is turned in so I would not worry to much about no taxs being Paid, also 20 Million just think they will spend maybe 2-5 Million trying and Retreaving the Silver also #20,000,000 is just a drop in the bucket of whats really in 10 squard mile of any Sea. Now to all life has away of taking care of all other little details. So Let If Be
Posted by Jim MCcoy on March 15,2010 | 08:14 PM
Why would the GOVERMENT of all people want money? They already gots a ton of it! WE need it, WERE the ressecion sufferers! Harumph.:(
Posted by Delaney on March 15,2010 | 08:11 PM
To late I found it last week!
Posted by Me on March 15,2010 | 08:04 PM
These treasure hunters will be real disappointed. The bars dissolved in the muck decades ago most likely. I've done experiments on the muck at the bottom of the harbor to see if the silver was even worth looking for. I took a few samples and placed pure 1 ounce silver Eagles in the slop. After 1 month the eagles lost 20% of their mass...the markings on the Eagles were completely dissolved off...they were covered in a dull grey flakey matter, which I could pluck off a little with my fingernail to reveal shiny silver underneath. I left a couple coins in for another month and they lost another 10% of their mass...I stopped the experiment at this point. After 100 years...I'd say theres no chance there's anything left of those bars. This joker is wasting his time.
Posted by ben on March 15,2010 | 08:03 PM
Do you have any idea what it would cost to try and recover this silver and lead?
Posted by OTM Shank on March 15,2010 | 07:58 PM
Poor guys!!! Dem sharks on land are waiting....
Posted by Chigbo on March 15,2010 | 07:57 PM
I think the person who said that the deckhands stole the missing loot is right. I mean who would not notice the money missing after the boat tipped. The money would be the first thing I would check after my boat tipped not wait until i reached the dock the next day!
Posted by hellen on March 15,2010 | 07:56 PM
Word to the wise,if you find it don,t say a word,cry like a baby" say it was a waste of time",run like hell to switzerland never to be seen again!!!.
Posted by jay jarrell on March 15,2010 | 07:45 PM
If the Guggenheim's want it - they can look for it themselves or contract someone to do it for them. If they let it sit out there all this time... then too bad... finders keepers!!! I wish I had the resources to search for it myself!
Posted by michelle on March 15,2010 | 07:40 PM
@Bryant Nellermoe - your calculations are off, as silver is weighed in troy pounds (the measure of precious metals) with 12 troy ounces to the pound (avoirdupois pounds, the standard measure of everything else, has 16 ounces to the pound).
Using the same spot price of $17/oz, the value of the haul would come down to ~$21M.
Posted by E.Zajdel on March 15,2010 | 07:40 PM
dont the people get a million dollars each?
Posted by monica on March 15,2010 | 07:39 PM
Good luck fishing dudes dont get in "hot" water
Posted by Dan on March 15,2010 | 07:38 PM
"what about the Guggenheim Family? I mean, if they're still around, this material IS their property and they should it back if they can prove ownership"
Chances are the family had insurance on it and collected on it. Depending on the local and state laws, the "treasure" could be considered abandoned after so many years after the involved parties stop actively looking for it. If anyone has a legit claim to the property it would be the insurance company.
Posted by Ben on March 15,2010 | 07:38 PM
I say if the original deckhands didn't steal it then drop the rest in the river to cover up their theft... then someone else very likely already pulled it up. You find it publicly like these guys and the government and the Guggenheim's are definitely going to want their share. But if a group went in there discreetly and kept it very very quiet, then noone could demand their share right? I'd say if it was ever there its long gone by now.
Posted by Miranda O. on March 15,2010 | 07:37 PM
As for the Guggenheim family having rights to this property...I don't think so. They have had many years to launch more surches in the "public" waters and haven't done so. This is concidered abandonned property but I still think the goverment will unfortunetly grab up what they can.
Posted by Michael on March 15,2010 | 07:36 PM
they need to head south to georgia and look for the gold lost during the war, the grounds not frozen!
Posted by Ray Banks on March 15,2010 | 07:35 PM
So much to consider in Mr. Hayes’ efforts: Federal and State Governments will take their share in taxes, HAZMAT expenses for cleaning the diving gear and equipment, labor, ship operation costs added to the environmental impact fees for causing an undaunting environmental impact on the surrounding underwater habitat for disturbing the dioxin laden silt are just some concerns. Hayes and crew will be recognized for their efforts! Previous unrecorded salvage efforts to obtain the silver ingots may have recovered small payloads of the treasure but. Advanced underwater metal detection devices and the knowledge of side-scan sonar will ensure the crew will not be helplessly dredging in the layers of silt for a treasure worth their efforts. Ken, if you need a “mudbug”/hard-hat diver, sign me up. Sounds like an opportunity! I’d accept the challenge to spend hours of bottom time pulling up treasure that will possibly bring up more than silver!
Posted by Deepsea on March 15,2010 | 07:34 PM
Ever heard the story of the "Ant & the Grasshopper"?
Posted by Gary on March 15,2010 | 07:33 PM
It's already been found. And i aint kidding. laughing all the way to bank.:):):)
Posted by thomas tipton on March 15,2010 | 07:27 PM
All metal for manufacturing is measured in "pigs" (heavy "pigs" are less likly to be stolen) Only retail amounts of precious metals are measured in ounces. The Guggenheim family had insurance and were paid for their loss. Cargo transported by ship has had insurance since the 1700's There are salvage laws for cargo "lost at sea"
Posted by Native Okie on March 15,2010 | 07:23 PM
If those bars are still there they must be burried deep in sediment.
Posted by Andrew on March 15,2010 | 07:20 PM
I can't even imagine going into that filthy polluted water. Gross.
Posted by martin on March 15,2010 | 07:15 PM
Dreams are free and sometimes they can come true, Good Luck and GO FOR IT...
Posted by Bernie (Santa B. Claus) Sharpe on March 15,2010 | 07:15 PM
Really people? The Guggenheim family abandoned any search for this years ago. There are statute of limitations on such things as well as salvaging laws.
Your money/time = your rewards/losses.
The city will exact some taxes as well as state taxes for the sale of the piggys and don't forget the payroll, investors, fuel, food, equipment, etc. that goes into launching a full scale recovery mission with (hopes) of finding not guaranteeing such a lode.
Those who don't risk, never gain or profit.
Posted by Dash Manchester on March 15,2010 | 07:11 PM
I know where the silver is , the ship dumped it real close to statue of liberty ... instead of the deeper water.. i found 3 bars 2 yrs ago near shore there.... I can take you there.. I was gonna go back this yr and dig up the rest so i can try and transfer it to paper money...
Posted by tony on March 15,2010 | 07:11 PM
Let me keep it safe! Or will i?
Posted by Dude on March 15,2010 | 07:09 PM
Thats not enough to get me to dive in that nasty,toxic harbor.
Posted by Flatreasurediver on March 15,2010 | 07:06 PM
More than likely the Gugennheimer family was paid off handsomely for the lost fortune. I'd bet they'll lay claim to any find.
Posted by mike on March 15,2010 | 07:05 PM
is New York City now abbreviated with NYS?
Posted by Michael on March 15,2010 | 07:05 PM
I'm gonna dust off my mask and snorkel.
Posted by Nick on March 15,2010 | 07:05 PM
either way, the goverment will TAX any money you cash it in for. you pay taxes every day from when you get paid you get taxed, when you buy gas,you get taxed, when you buy food you get taxed, when you own a home you get taxed so your dollar isnt worth a dollar. its actually worth less than 95 cents
Posted by james on March 15,2010 | 07:05 PM
To make such a find takes time & $ of course.
Why the government or any city feels they have the right to claim what they didn't find & sat back waiting on someone else to do the work is wrong.
A find is a find. I was raised to give back if you found the right owner so that doesn't entitle the Government or NYC to any of it!!!
Posted by Jen on March 15,2010 | 07:02 PM
Me thinks either government, NYC or federal, should keep all the booty. NYC should do the job for just under 300% of the yield, the feds- well- they aren't that efficient.
Posted by R MARTIN on March 15,2010 | 07:00 PM
can i have just one bar smile
Posted by just one on March 15,2010 | 06:55 PM
Ah, now we get into the nasty bit about salvage law... If the load of silver and lead were insured and the claim was paid, then legally the bounty belongs to the insurance company. If the silver & lead were not insured then it still legally belongs to the Guggenheim family. Now, whatever Hayes and crew recover, they can put a salvage lien against it. Being that they are not taking any heroic measures to recover the "treasure" they will probably be lucky is they end up with 25% of it's value. Oh, that will be considered income and as such will be taxable by NY state & the fed.
Posted by Gordon on March 15,2010 | 06:54 PM
Don't you mean for NYS to "waste it"!
Posted by Keith on March 15,2010 | 06:54 PM
No Way NYC or NJ should NOT get one cent! This guy is a law abiding citizen who pays taxes, has employees and earns a living right? What gives NY a piece of his hard work? The Feds are going to make him declare it and tax him anyway! But Im ready to get my binoculars out, and start snooping on this guy too! The second he finds it, you can bet the place is going to be swarmed by scuba divers and treasure hunters! And because he don't own the water, it's anyone's game! He better keep it under tight wraps if he finds it, but how could he? LOL this is going to be a blast to see how this plays out! what a story!
Posted by Johnny Fossil on March 15,2010 | 06:51 PM
To Laura,
The potential $20,000,000.00 is only a drop in the bucket of our national debt. It might pay for a couple of days' interest on the principle but not much more...
Posted by Phil on March 15,2010 | 06:50 PM
I think that who ever finds the treasure should be able to keep it all Remember finders keepers losers weepers well I think that should hold true to the government and the brinks trucks who accidently drop a money bag full of cash out on the road... Dont they have insurance for that? I found a huge bag of money that fell of the truck in Philly and I had to give back every penny.. no reward nothing I should of left the country and pleaded temporary insanity with all that money over 1 million.. sucks huh? Broke in PA>
Posted by maryann on March 15,2010 | 06:47 PM
The problem is that if the New York State government would go looking for it, they would recover the $20 million in silver in an operation costing taxpayers $27 million.
Posted by Treasurekidd on March 15,2010 | 06:46 PM
They should have found this soon enough and put in the National Treasure movie ;)
Posted by Anthony L on March 15,2010 | 06:40 PM
Quick! Where's my scuba diving suit ?
Posted by Peter on March 15,2010 | 06:38 PM
argghh : those that die are the lucky ones! Retrieving in dioxin laced muck is not my idea of treasure hunting. my luck after spending 1000's of reales , I'll find pig iron. wait til irs hears about this one.
Posted by ahahb on March 15,2010 | 06:38 PM
The government will tax it as income, so they will get their share.
Posted by mark on March 15,2010 | 06:34 PM
I wouldn't rule-out the possibility that those who were shadowing Hayes are connected with ASARCO or the Guggenheim Estate. It sounds like the original loss occurred within the off-shore boundaries of New Jersey. So NJ State law, not (Federal) Admiralty Law, probably governs ownership of anything recovered. If insurance covered the loss does the insuror retain salvage rights 100 years later??
Posted by J Cordner on March 15,2010 | 06:29 PM
I don't think the treasure is there, nor was it ever there. IF it ever existed at all, I think it was stolen in September of 1903. Chances are it was all faked for some money laundrying or insurance scam by the owners. The "lookers" should do a lot more back story research before they spend a lot of money looking for a myth.
Posted by BriarDan on March 15,2010 | 06:28 PM
I bet you someone already took the treasure. That's why no one can find it.
Posted by Master Chief on March 15,2010 | 06:27 PM
is it not obvious the tug boat crew took the silver the boat didn't even sink. Then they some how recovered 85% percent of it. Must of had some special equipment back in 1903.
Posted by gthompson on March 15,2010 | 06:27 PM
i think if you spend your time and your money hunting for lost ships the reward should be all yours. if the states or goverments or foriegn countries want part of the action they should provide funding.I dont think its fair that a country or goverment should take ownership of such finds. Its funny how they made the Lost Dutchmans mine a National park area. Greed is a nasty word.
Posted by ric montes on March 15,2010 | 06:26 PM
WHo cares about the Government! They Rob us of enough!
Posted by on March 15,2010 | 06:26 PM
what about the Guggenheim Family? I mean, if they're still around, this material IS their property and they should it back if they can prove ownership
Posted by Pat Cross on March 15,2010 | 06:25 PM
Good luck fishing don't let the sharks on land get you.
Posted by ronald on March 15,2010 | 06:24 PM
I wish i could find it before they did but owell.:(
Posted by Destiny on March 15,2010 | 06:18 PM
what a find
Posted by Eduardo Garcia on March 15,2010 | 06:16 PM
Wonder if Guggenheim family relatives claim this as their own. I'm sure the Ken Hayes's crew wants to claim the whole $20 Million loot for themselves, for that's way more then if the Guggenheim family paid them to look for it. Liked the Men in Black on the shore line.
Posted by Charles on March 15,2010 | 06:13 PM
To see is to believe... there is nothing out there... someone might have hauled it up for a very long long time... they rather spend their time helping the people of haiti or in south america that was hit by disaster than doing this search for sunken treasure.... hhhhmmm.... in the Philippines, if you talk about treasure, someone will become very rich and on the other hand, someone will lost plenty of resources.... the person who will become rich is the solicitor.. and the financiers will become the losers at the end of the day... keep up the good work people, you will become rich in the future!! maybe 100 years from now..
Posted by cliff cosep on March 15,2010 | 06:13 PM
Good luck to the treasure hunters,altho the loot that is it is ever found should be given back to the original owners.A finders fee would pay handsomely tho and dirtribution of wealth should not come from the government but from the people who work to receive it for themselves.
Posted by Tim on March 15,2010 | 06:08 PM
Don't worry, they will. They'll wait for this poor sod to find it, then jump all over his a-- with many reasons to take it, bit by bit. He'll still get to keep some though.
Posted by Gren on March 15,2010 | 06:05 PM
Hopefully, the guy spending all the time finding this stuff gets the reward. But I'm sure the insurance (if it was insured for loss) or Guggenheim estate might want part of it.
Posted by Rob on March 15,2010 | 05:58 PM
They should keep it all to themselves. New york could have launched their own salvage operation if they wanted.
Posted by Bob on March 15,2010 | 05:58 PM
I know it sounds Gypsy-like," but I am surviving on 750 dollars Social Security and could use one of those silver bars. Keep this in mind, Smitsonian! Keep up your interesting surveying. You can give Mr. Hayes my E-mail.
Posted by Nathanael on March 15,2010 | 05:57 PM
20 million? TRY 20 BILLION!!! I love simming. I think i felt it hit my foot when i was swimming.
Posted by NOWAYSCOTT on March 15,2010 | 05:56 PM
I don't think so. I believe salvage laws apply here. If you find it, you keep it.
You or I could use it too, but we did no work to get it, just like NYC.
Posted by Tim on March 15,2010 | 05:53 PM
To hell with the government of New York and getting any money at all. They'd just figure a wya to use it to line some politicians pockets If anything, it should become part of the Guggenheim for posterity.
Posted by D shmaltz on March 15,2010 | 05:52 PM
Do not worry. Should he be so fortunate as to discover this mother lode of mother lodes, not only will the New York State government, but our itchy fingered friends in DC as well, will certainly uncover some long-ago promulgated and insignificant taxing regulation that will permit them to grab their loot before you could blink an eyelid.
Posted by Carl on March 15,2010 | 05:49 PM
"Doesn't the NYS government get a share of treasure? Goodness knows they could use it."
I didn't support the salvage effort, nor do I have any claim to the recovered property (salvaging laws not withstanding) - does that mean I'm should be in line for a share, too?
BTW: there was no treasure recovered. So it's a little premature to be divying up the booty.
Posted by RJ on March 15,2010 | 05:48 PM
Sounds like a great opportunity to make some cash.
Posted by EquityGroups_com on March 15,2010 | 05:46 PM
well silver is about 17 dollars an ounce, so if theres only 1,400 "pigs" unfound since i cannot find the term pig relating to silver id assume they are 1oz ingots meaning its only worth $23,800. Now at the end of the article they make a comment about pulling up 75 pound bars out of muck, so are they assume'ing they're 75 pound bars or do they know? If thats the case then its worth alot more. 16 ounces in a pound, which means 1,200 ounces for 75 pounds times 1400"pigs" at 75 pounds a bar would make a grand total of 1,680,000 ounces of silver multiply that by the 17$ an ounce rate gives you 28,560,000. So hopefully they know for sure its 75 pound bars otherwise they might go broke on this expedition!
Posted by Bryant Nellermoe on March 15,2010 | 05:44 PM
Doesn't the "treasure" belong to the Guggenheim's?...not that they need it.
Posted by celia on March 15,2010 | 05:44 PM
IDIOTS!!! Wanna know where the missing 15% is? The deckhands stole it.
Posted by brad johnson on March 15,2010 | 05:43 PM
people in NYC should get the share of the money.
Posted by Andy on March 15,2010 | 05:40 PM
I think that if they find it, they'll just use the treasure for themselves. I would keep half and give the rest to charity, so what will they do with the treasure?
Posted by anonamous on March 15,2010 | 05:38 PM
I find it thrilling with all the new tech items to help with the hunt. I have always been drawn to such stuff, ever since Dr. Robert Ballard discovered the Titanic. Good luck on your quest, and remember to write about it so this Nebraskan can read about it.
Posted by Bill on March 15,2010 | 05:38 PM
Good story, well told.
Posted by Harold Pohl on March 15,2010 | 05:37 PM
If NYC wish to get some of the money from the find.. They should be out there to help..
Posted by Richmond Gerrish on March 15,2010 | 05:37 PM
heck no... if nys gov. want it , they should get in the water and look for it.
Posted by BARB on March 15,2010 | 05:37 PM
YAR MATES!
CRACK YER BACKS, WE'RE SAILING TOWARDS THE TREASURE!
Posted by Nick on March 15,2010 | 05:34 PM
Just because NYS could use it, doesnt mean that they're entitled to any of it.
Posted by don litterst on March 15,2010 | 05:34 PM
96 years of dredging almost certainly means there's nothing left. Not in that area.
Posted by Brian on March 15,2010 | 05:34 PM
If they want a share, they should get off their butts and go look for themselves.
Posted by Paul Milazzo on March 15,2010 | 05:33 PM
So this $20 million is going to get the United states out of debt right?!?!?!
Posted by Laura on March 15,2010 | 05:30 PM
Doesn't the NYS government get a share of treasure? Goodness knows they could use it.
Posted by Linda on March 15,2010 | 01:51 PM